What do you know about Colic? Discussion

[LLStar117]

OK so my Bonnie ended up having colic instead of sore legs, or maybe she had both but the vet treated her for colic.

I'm sure most of us have dealt with a horse with colic in our lifetime and I know with Bonnie in this case was not a tell tale sign of colic. Plus the vet was upset with me for my prevet care of the horse.

So what I'd like to do is know what you all do?

1. What signs would the horse display if it has colic?

2. What do you do yourself while waiting for the vet to arrive?

3. What is normal procedure for a vet to treat colic?

4. What do you do after the vet leaves?

Don't do research on this one, I want to know what you actually do, have done, will do in the future. I just want to see if I did things right. I will post my experience on a new thread, as there is more to it than a COLIC education.

Thanks.

[pinkhorselady]

Hey Jennie!

I'm glad to hear that Bonnie is doing better. ;D

We have a mare that's quite sensitive, so we're careful with her feed & watch her for signs of colic with weather changes, etc...

Signs: walking away from grain at feed time, laying down, rolling, looking/nipping at sides.

Treatment (by us, not vet): Get the horse up & walking, if possible. Listen to her gut via stethoscope. Give banamine. Stay with her until she poops & it's normal. Try to get her to drink. If she's no longer distressed, but hasn't drunk any water, we confine her to the shed with a bucket of water, so we know whether or not she has consumed any. If she has drunk water & is acting normally again, we'll leave her & check on her again periodically.

I have had the vet out for it before, but it was when we were new into horses, & I didn't have experience with it. Now that we know better what we're dealing with, we take care of it on our own. We'd call the vet if it was worse than what we've dealt with up to this point.

We've never dealt with a severe bout. It's all been pretty mild, but still enough to kind of scare us!

[pinkhorselady]

Oh yeah - regarding what the vet did: She gave her an injection, I'm guessing banamine (this was the first time the horse colicked & I'd never dealt with it before). Since the horse wasn't down & wasn't trying to get down anymore, she suggested we lock her in the shed overnight & give her water, so we'd know if/how much she was pooping & drinking. That was about it. She would have come back the next day, if the horse wasn't better. But she was, so we didn't have her come back...

[trademarkfarm]

I've had a mare colic in the trailer on a trip to a breeding farm. What I learned from that incident was to not only give a preventative dose of banamine before a long trip, but to also start a probiotic regimine prior to the trip.

A prebiotic feed program (forco is a great product) has drastically cut down on my incidents of gas colic. I've only had a couple ever colic bad enough for surgery (ended up euthing due to cost).

As far as during an incident, careful attention paid to the horse is vital. Knowing it's normal behavior and attitude will give you quick information that something is going on. I have not tried the "new" medication Buscopan, but have heard great things about it.

[chambe94]

Jan 21, 2009 13:27:50 GMT -5 LLStar117 said:

So what I'd like to do is know what you all do?

1. What signs would the horse display if it has colic?
It's a wide range. Can be as obvious as rolling, biting at sides, straining, groaning, etc. Or as subtle as just not eating, laying down (especially with legs stretched out) more than usual, curling up the upper lip (not in response to something smelly), standing like they are going to pee, but not peeing. IMO any horse that isn't eating is colic until proven otherwise.

2. What do you do yourself while waiting for the vet to arrive?
Give a dose of banamine (I alway take thier temp first though, because if they have a fever the banamine can hide it, which is especially important during Potomac season!). Handwalk a little bit, then let them rest, then repeat. I think a lot of people walk colicky horses to the point of exhaustion. Try to encourage them to drink. TAKE AWAY THIER FOOD

3. What is normal procedure for a vet to treat colic?
Most vets will (should) check thier gums, heart rate, etc, listen to thier gut sounds. Give them a shot of Banamine if you haven't already. Give them a shot of something stronger if hte Banaime isnt working. Tube them with water +/- mineral oil. Rectal them to feel for an impaction/twist/bloating etc. (might not do that if the horse is not behaving form pain or just bad manners)

4. What do you do after the vet leaves?
Follow thier directions. Usually no food for a little while, then just a little bit of hay at a time, then slowly start giving grain again. Encourage them to drink water (usally we give salt with a little bit of water in a big syringe and squirt that inthier mouth several times a day until they are really drinking good). Try to keep them somewhere where we can watch what they are eating/drinking/pooping.

quote]

[chambe94]

Forgot to add, if a horse isn't 100% after the first dose of banaime I dont give any more without having the vet check it out first. I think a lot of people run into trouble give too much Banaime.

[LLStar117]

OK, so I wasn't wrong. The vet here is a fruitcake.

I gave banamine paste (cuz horse is sometimes crazy with shots) monday afternoon and then again tuesday morning.

I did a hand walk for a hour or so at a time just until she'd lay down peacefully, her rolling wasn't much more than a normal shedding horse in springtime but I was still worried.

I thought it was her back legs going out on her so called the vet.

Vet refused a rectal unless she was in the clinic, vet tubed her with water, electrolites, min oil. Vet gave her a shot of sedation. Vet checked her temp. Vet listened for gut sounds. No check for heart rate or gums.

Vet got mad at me for giving the horse Banamine.

[stolzml]

signs: horse is "off" somehow just isn't right, sluggish, lathargic, depressed even slightly, they look tired, don't finish grain, pick at hay(i have hay pigs, food pigs so anything LEFTOVER is a sign of trouble), look a little hollow at the flank, have those nip swirls along the barrel, lay out too long flat & groin or snort when i say their name, mild sweating for no appearent reason, a full water bucket after a night in... there are a lot of signs which very to some degree by horse, Dixie comes to the gate & paws it loudly, i keep a heavy chain hanging on her pasture gate - if something is wrong she WILL get to that gate & lets us know - God I love her. She teaches about half of the foals here to do the same, somehow, unfortunately she also teaches them to climb in the water tank to cool off, to dunk their heads to get rid of flies & to kick plastic barrels over the fences in some weird horse volleybarrel game - what do ya do?

Treatment first line - listen to gut sounds either decreased or increased, take temp to be sure it's within normal, blood preasure (you can take this with a human blood presure cuff at the top of their tail - cheaper than a horse cuff & just as accurate for basic diagnosis), check the gum for refill capilary time, SMELL their breath (if it's mild choke their breath is sour, not sweet)... okay, colic or choke in the mild forms - 1/2 a dose of Banamine by injection (orally is fine if it's very mild colic & not choke) - for mild choke i then massage their neck feeling for the blockage, try to relax them & work it down, give them 1 -2 hours to work it down and then call the vet if they can't. for colic - mix up a heavy salt & water mixture which is them squirted into their mouth by large oral syringe, treat with oral probiotics, walk them 5-10 minutes, tie a girth to a post in the hallway if i am alone & reach under the horse to pull the girth up snug - then walk the horse forward a step reach under an snug up on the girth again - walk the horse forwared a step - keep repeating until i reach the flank, then back the horse up & repeat 2 more time, walk the horse for 5-10 minutes & then let them stand quietly in a stall or roam around a small paddock/round pen, provide a fresh bucket of tempid water & a bucket of water with 1/2 cup of molasses mixed in, provide a thin flake of grass hay (picking at hay is a sign of improvement to note with mild colic, you remove all hay IF you have to go to the heavy drugs) , monitor every 20-30 minutes & administer more salt water wash orally, walk & repeat girth excercies every hour to hour & a half after rechecking gut sounds and capilary refill time.... i call the vet & give him a heads up on a possible issue at 2 hours in, at that point if the horse has shown no interest at all in the water i give the second half of the banamine does & use an oral syringe to administer 60-80 cc of veggie oil followed by another sale rinse... call the vet to update the status just before his office closes for the day & find out which vet is on call for the evening - call that vet around 9 pm with an update on ALL vitals and behavior/vitals of all other horses in the barn (rules out culprits like grain mold, bad hay, fertilizer overspray, contaiminated water IF everyone else is normal & most likely rules out other illness) - okay at that last vet call if there are NO changes then under the vets direction i normally give mylanta orally 60 cc & another dose of injectable banamine then keep checking, doing the salt water washes & walking at least the length of our hallway or accross the paddock every hour so long as the horse is resting comfortably they are allowed to lay down - kind of depends on the vets night if they head in my direction or if i see them in the morning... please remeber i have used the same vet for over 30 years, used to hang around his barn, have worked for 2 other vets so i may have seen a lot more of this stuff then some & i do have a backup stash of more serious meds to administer on hand at the vet on calls discretion - i stay pretty clam in these situations & our vet knows that, knows i can do what needs done & that i am reporting very accurately the horse's status. A mild increase in sweating i sponge down their chest & legs with baking soda & water, for chills they get a heavy polarfleece sheet, somewhere in the middle of the night i offer a very small amount of bran & oatmeal mash /w molasses, applesauce & carrot shavings or carrot juice or carrot baby food - if things worsen at all (heavy sweating, increased respiration, pawing, parking out, striking, pushing their head against walls or doors, refusing to back even a step, ANY thrashing at all, anything more than a simple half roll and get up, a spike in heart rate, eyes widening, flanks sinking, a hard lump on one side of the barrel or other, tail raise but no gas or stool passing /w straining, no urine for over 2 hours, biting at self or at me, knees/hocks buckling) i call the vet immediately to have mineral oil administered, etc - if the horse refuses to drink anything after the first 4 hours i call the vet & have the horse IV'd /w fluids. the horse is never in an area smaller than 12 x 12 and if stalling is necessary because of weather i leave the door open so they can roam the hall so long as they are relaxed... the paddock is the prefered treatment area, an yes, i am out their with a flashlight all night looking for fresh stool constantly. when we get into the second day people start bringing me food in the barn, i have a coffeepot out there & the second night i sleep on straw bales IN the stall. There is always 2 forms of banamine here, bute, ace, dipyrone when i can find it (yeah, it;s off the market & hard to get) or other anti-spasm drugs, Mylanta, Milk of Magnesea, Pepto all in LARGE bottles, salt, veggie oil, probiotics both paste & pellet.

what did i forget?

[BarebackJumper]

The vet may have gotten mad because banamine paste takes quite a while to take effect. In that long amount of wait time the impaction or whatever is causing the colic could get worse. I know when AJ coliced I was told to give banamine injectable pronto. I know Bonnie doesnt like shots but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I always walk the horse but I dont walk til the horse is exhausted and I let them choose their pace but I dont let them really stop because in my experience, they will just go down again. Im sorry you had to go through this. I would have a shot of banamine on hand just for colic incidences. From what I have heard it takes an hour or so for the paste to work and 10-30 mins for the injectable.

[LLStar117]

I don't do shots with Bonnie because as nice a horse she is, when she's hurting she gets really bad with shots. With the vet I didn't even tell him what kind of banamine I gave her. he just asked how much and when.

Bonnie was doing better yesterday morning, but today she's icky again. She is pooping, but the first half is dry rock hard nuggets and the 2nd half is a log shape of a mushier poop. I did finally get her to drink more water this morning. Had to wait 3 hours tho, by the time my dad showed up she drank about 6 gallons of water tainted with molasses, then layed down again.

I have no idea what is causing this. I don't think she likes the water, neither horse likes the hay. Molly is picking at other things and comes back to eat a few bites of the hay and then goes back to the growth. Bonnie I haven't seen her eat any of the growth, but she must be eating something to keep pooping.

[BarebackJumper]

Dumb vet. That I wouldnt listen to and I would def find another vet. I had to get skip to drink a lot of water so I give him salt in his grain. You could always do that with beet pulp or something for bonnie. She isnt getting enough water for sure. I know they probably dont like what they have to eat and drink but they will have to eventually. Nothing down there is really going to be the same hay and water wise as up here. Just give them salt to drink and they will eat when they are hungry. We know that neither of them horses will starve. Bonnie is prolly laying down because her feet and legs might be sore.

[LLStar117]

I agree its definatley a combination of things. Probably colic, mixed with sore legs from travel, mixed with lack of taste for the hay and water. Stress of the trip. Stress of the new home. Stress of the temp changes going from MI cold to 70 yesterday. Just pray for her, she will come around again. She just needs to get past this lump of changes.