treeless saddles

[horsecrazymom]

I am sure this topic has been done over and over again but I am now able to read messages regularly on here!

I really love to ride bareback but I find these days I like to have a little extra stability most days so I ride with a saddle. (Griffin likes to spook at horrible awful scary things like butterflies)

I love comfortable (for me and the horse!) look of the treeless saddles and I like the idea they have stirrups.

Are they just a fancy bareback pad though? Do they slip like bareback pads do? Do they tend to fit horses better?

[sam]

I LOVE my treeless saddle! Sensation Hybrid
there are MANY different brands, prices ranges and quality ranges--just like all styles of saddles
some are a fancy bareback pad, like you asked...others give lots of stability
I can only speak for my own...it does not slip, it fits ALL my horses (isn't recommended for very high withers) VERY light (weighs about 10 lbs), high quality, able to have it custom made with choice of leather and colors, seat, you do have to have a special saddle pad and they are not recommended for heavier riders....I can't post pics here yet, but if you have any questions or anything, let me know...
as you can tell---I LOVE MINE!!! LOL!!

[Dawn]

I have two wants for my riding these days since I have that draft cross mare and she is somewhat of a tougher fit too wide for most full bars, not wide enough for draft... So I am looking to get a LJ Bareback Saddle (littlejoe) www.better-horsetack.com/lj/index.cfm I have several friends who have these and they are nice give you a very secure seat for this type of saddle/pad.
The other I want for my heavier riding is a barefoot london treeless. The nice thing is you need a good pad that allows for a spinal channel with either one so I will be able to use th same pad (already have an equipedic dressage and if get these will get a skito dryback to have also) And I could let go of a lot of my other saddles too!

[Dawn]

Also Lori's Tack has lots of different styles of treeless/bareback pads best prices I have found so far in my looking although haven't looked hard. The baretek bareback pads are interesting too as they have the cutback for the higher withered horses.
www.loristack.com/treeless.htm

[Michigancowgirl]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my treeless saddle! I would not go back to a treed western saddle for anything! Its more stable that a bareback pad as it doesnt slip and slide back if put on right......Your best be before spending the money would be to find someone who has one and ride in theirs.........but remember you have to go up one size for treeless......if you ride a 15 inch seat normally then you wiull ride in a 16 inch treeless:)

[sam]

some companies will allow you to demo (w/refundable deposit) if you don't have access to anyone who already has what you want.
I demo'd mine for 2 weeks last year before I ordered my own.

[stormie]

Not all treeless saddles fit all horses and riders. Some are not that good. Some horses shouldn't use one and some riders shouldn't use one. They aren't the magic cure all to saddle fitting. There can still be some issues even with the new ones on not spreading out the pressure enough. So they do have their issues.

Besides the fact they don't fit all horses Two big things to watch out for.

A) the saddle needs to give gullet space so that the saddle does not put pressure on the spine. This is really important where the stirrups and rigging are.

B) CHAIR SEAT. So many bareback pads and a number of treeless put you in a chair seat. Look at the LJ one linked to above. Check out the girl in the top right photo. THAT is not a good seat at all. Ya it could be her riding but if you look at some of the other photos, same thing. You don't want a saddle that parks your legs way out in front of you as it unstablizes your seat. Sure I hear a lot when I talk about Chair seat that "I ride in it and doesn't do that to me" Or "I don't feel like i'm out of place" but you know what I also know people that are in a chair seat and don't know it. So look really closely at your seat when trying one out, having someone take a bunch of photos of you riding in it and make sure it isn't putting you in a chair seat...or the other way around, pushing your legs to far back but normally you feel that one right away as you feel like you are going to fall on your face.

[Dawn]

Good point Stormie (and you know I always respect your advice!) on the LJ's some of that is how the riders ordered and/or set up their particular model. She gives the option of getting two spots to hook your stirrup leathers too, if the rider hooks to the "front" one it will give you more of the chair seat which as you say many people do like and I know a couple people with bad hips it is the only way they are comfortable, but if you hook to the back it is more like dressage rigging (is that how I want to put it?) so you sit more inline and correct.
Not arguing the picks just wanted to mention you need to order it and set it up correctly to avoid making it too easy to sit that way. I know of several riders who do their endurance riding exclusively in LJ's on hot arabians and love them say their horses move better BUT they use a good pad that creates the correct spinal channel.
You defnitely need that with any treeless.

[SunshineAcres]

I have a Cashel Soft Saddle for my Belgian. I love it!
My son has a Hilason treeless saddle for his mare and he loves that! Both are a good fit for the horses that we use them on and are comfortable for both horse and rider.

[horsecrazymom]

I have been looking at the Cashel Soft Saddle.. I like the looks of it but does that one have the stirrups that can be put in two positions?

I am going to try to do a trade or selling outright of a ring I have and see if I can get close to the price of a cheaper treeless.. if I really like them I can save up for a year and get a more expensive model..

[Dawn]

Yeah but SA Sunshine is an angel, LOL. My Bella, isn't... always... Do you think if Sunshine (I know she doesn't do that but imagine...) took a good spook you would feel secure in a good spook? I am leaning towards the LJ because it is more like my parelli pad and I know the suede on that pad makes me feel like I stick pretty good. But I want her to make one with more of a wither relief cut, not picky at all right??
Oh and pickin your brain...do you feel too off the horse like there is too much cush under your leg on the Cashel? I know the old ones were really cushy so comfy but made me feel like I couldn't feel the horse in the one I rode in, I like a closer feel, but then I know they made some modifications to try to alleviate that problem in the newer models and I haven't tried one of those.

[stormie]

Dawn

I wasn't really saying that some like the chair seat, more that they don't know they are doing it or never learned to rider properly. There is a reason you shouldn't ride that way, it makes you unstable in the saddle. You are at a great risk of going off if you are in a chair seat even if it was just a slight jump from the horse. And it throws off your balance which throws off the horse's balance. And one should NOT be jumping like in that photo. That is no great jump, the horse doesn't look like it's a terrible jumper but it does make that rider look like she is clueless about jumping. That was a very poor photo to put on there.

It is actually harder on the hips sometimes. I have bad hips. I busted up my hips and pelvic when a horse fell with me. It's bad enough that my hips go in and out of alignment when ever they want. I can't get on bareback normally with out it throwing a hip out. So I have hip issues and riding in a chair seat would make my hips more stressed and tired then not....but I do find that if the saddle is too wide for me it forces me into more of a chair seat. Still not more comfortable then the proper seat but in that saddle it is. So maybe for some with hip issues it isn't so much that a chair seat is better but that saddle is not right??

Looking at their one drawing, it looks like even in the back spot for the leathers it sill wouldn't be far enough back for that riding jumping.....now it could of course be more her then the saddle. Many riders just don't have solid a leg to be jumping like that and would kick the leg forward or backward, hunching over the horse like that when jumping. Comes from not having a proper seat, something hard to learn in something that will tend to put you in a chair seat.

And no I don't have a prefect seat. Didn't have before my accident and really have a hard time with it now from time to time as my balance is still off at the canter and my hips have a mind of their own. I just think that why work harder to get a proper seat when there are better saddles out there that would help you do it naturally. As a bareback pad this might be great but I wouldn't replace the main saddle with it.

I have just seen far to many people going around in a chair seat, sometimes clueless about doing it. Stirrup placement just isn't something most think of when looking at a saddle. I have even seen western saddles with the stirrups hanging wrong. I rode, in one last summer. Saying I rode in it is kind of stretching it. I was in that saddle about 1 minute. The stirrups hung in such a way that it kicked your legs way, way back. Killed my hips and lower back right away. I felt like the horse was going down hill and she was walking UP hill. That is one crazy feeling. Maybe it is due to my hips that I stress stirrup placement because if it's off to much it hurts.

[stormie]

horsecrazymom

If you are going to go with treeless don't give up on Quaility. Better to buy a used higher end one then a cheap ebay junky one. Now if you don't ride a whole lot and you get a half way good one a cheaper one might work but you really have to watch them. Lots of bad stitching, weak rigging and even uneven saddles. Not all are treeless like the BM's. They have a solid part in the front so make sure that fits the horse. Some have that but you can change to different ones or take it out totally like the Barefoot saddles.

The Cashel doesn't(or didn't) have a gullet so you have to watch for pressure on the spine if you don't use a good treeless pad under it. It also has no twist(common in tressless) and some complain that they can't feel the horse as well. Like the LJ the price tag is huge...maybe biggere then what they are really worth. Sorry but I don't think they offer anything that makes them worth so much more. By the time you have enough for them you are a good way to having the amount for a better treeless saddle.

[SunshineAcres]

Jan 14, 2009 13:04:08 GMT -5 Dawn said:

Yeah but SA Sunshine is an angel, LOL. My Bella, isn't... always... Do you think if Sunshine (I know she doesn't do that but imagine...) took a good spook you would feel secure in a good spook? I am leaning towards the LJ because it is more like my parelli pad and I know the suede on that pad makes me feel like I stick pretty good. But I want her to make one with more of a wither relief cut, not picky at all right??
Oh and pickin your brain...do you feel too off the horse like there is too much cush under your leg on the Cashel? I know the old ones were really cushy so comfy but made me feel like I couldn't feel the horse in the one I rode in, I like a closer feel, but then I know they made some modifications to try to alleviate that problem in the newer models and I haven't tried one of those.

I've taken a good spook on Sunshine bareback without any saddle or pad and I stayed on. She jumped sideways about 5 feet and I grabbed the sh!t out of her mane to stay on. LOL
When I ride in the Cashel, I don't feel that it's too bulky but I have one of the newer ones. I've ridden in both the old model and the new model. I like the new model especially for the stirrups being more forward than before. The old model was ridiculous as to how far back the stirrups were!

[SunshineAcres]

Oh, I bought the Cashel used for $150. Almost new condition too!